Kaizoku Fansubs / Forums

you do realize you were talking about crunchyroll for a part of that right?  also, some people prefer dubs, anime is meant to be watched so the viewer understands the language being spoken, that's how i see it, the japanese dont just sub TV and movies from america when they watch it.  and yes, any money made by the japanese from english licencing is from the actual licence, they get essentially nothing, if anything, from the actual DVD sales, but they still get the money from the licencing, and if the companies like funimation and VIZ dont get to make money from the DVD sales, then they're not going to bother licencing and paying that money.  also, letting the japanese be involved with the translating has been done before, and did not go very well.

you do make some good points of course, and several companies are trying to do pretty much that already, but piracy definately hurts the US anime market as well, like i said above, if the local companies can't make money on DVD sales then they wont keep licencing new animes.

UneasySpider wrote:

Crunchyroll? I had to wikipedia it to really know what it was, though I'd heard of it in the past..

linkman0596 wrote:

and yes, any money made by the japanese from english licencing is from the actual licence, they get essentially nothing, if anything, from the actual DVD sales, but they still get the money from the licencing, and if the companies like funimation and VIZ dont get to make money from the DVD sales, then they're not going to bother licencing and paying that money.

Boo-woo. Seriously; if the Japanese deserve that money, they should earn it by creating the international changes needed to make it popular here. I mean, dubs are a different market, but I don't feel like I'm supporting shit. "I'm supporting the company supporting the company that supports the creator." Are you shitting me? Just saying; I know people like dubs, but it's a shame the money only goes the way it does.

linkman0596 wrote:

also, letting the japanese be involved with the translating has been done before, and did not go very well.

It's 2012. If they want the money, they can do it right. Hell, even a streaming site with ads like youtube will make them atleast something (so long as it's profitable).


Piracy creates a lack of sales due to a lack of people wanting to buy the product anymore.

are you serious?  the japanese shouldn't be trying to change anime to be better accepted overseas, it's intended mainly for the japanese people.  we're the ones who like a japanese product, if they tried to americanize it we'd probably end up hating it.  also, it's not like licencing is always just a one time payment deal, they can have contracts stating that the companies in japan will get paid again if DVD sales go beyond a certain point, and dont forget that licences expire, if a series sells well enough on DVD the american company will gladly pay to keep the licence so they can make more DVDs.

and they've always wanted the money, that doesn't mean they can do it right.  when it comes down to it, the japanese, or at least the one's having to do with anime, have as much a grasp on english and american culture as your average american anime fan has a grasp on japanese and japan's culture, just enough to think you can get it but falling well short of actually doing it right.

UneasySpider wrote:

I didn't say they should americanize it, but they know there's an international market. This isn't a closed world, anymore. With the internet people trade all around... Hell, wallstreet has known this forever.

On licensing; Ok, good... I'd hate to think they were taken advantage of.

On your last paragraph; Business makes the world go round. I promise you there are people who specifically study english over there to be perfect bridges between the two.

but they make plenty of money on DVD sales and the like in japan already, prices for the DVDs over there would drive you insane.  america is just extra money for them, why not do it the easy way and let an american company do the heavy lifting and just take a big paycheck upfront.

and yes, while most dont, many japanese people do know english quite well and would make excelent translators for anime, problem is those people tend to work for other businesses that pay better and the like.  it's be like trying to get steven hawkings to teach a high school math class, yea he'd be awesome at it and everything, but you really think he'd bother?

SpikeSpiegel wrote:

Ill repeat what I said in that thread: If it wasn't for fansubbing I would never have been as(or at all) interested in anime/manga, and even japanese/asian films, in turn spending money on certain dvds, games, mangas and merchandise.. So If anything, I only gave them money because of fansub (i.e Piracy)

yea, i'm the same way, i'll never buy an anime i've never seen before, fansub or otherwise.  the article at the top is more saying we're abusing fansubs, watching them primarily instead of using them as a means of determining if an anime is good and keeping up with them till they get a dub.  Personally i think part of what spider said would be the best solution, and it's already happening too, we just have to be willing to do it:

site's like crunchyroll and niconico are licencing anime's for streaming with subtitles while they're being aired in japan.  i've been using crunchyroll for a while, so for those who dont know, they have to ways to watch, free and paid.  free members get stuck with commercials, they have to wait a week for the latest eps, and some shows are for paid members only.  paid members get no commercials, can watch them as soon as they come out in japan, and even get higher definition.  paid subscriptions are around $6 a month which isn't bad at all if you watch as much anime on there as i do.  plus since you're streaming you dont have to wait to download them and dont have to use up space on your hard drive, i've barely downloaded anything in months because just about everything i watch is on crunchyroll.  sry, got a bid sidetracked there, but basically from that, then companies over here can get the same idea of what would be popular over here than they would from fansubs, and then licence, dub, and release those titles, and make their money.  yea, there's probably a bunch of problems i dont know about with this way of doing things, but that doesn't mean it's not the base for a good system.  and like i said, they're already doing this, funimation owns niconico now so keep an eye on them and see what happens.

pilkman wrote:

I've purchased two Bandai DVD box sets with faulty DVD's, so personally I say good riddance to them. Funimation and that new company Sentai Filmworks seem to be releasing most series these days anyway, so Bandai won't be missed.

The real truth is that the anime industry is not nearly as bad off as anime companies would have you believe. Corporate executives are greedy vermin, and like rats they'll always be the first ones off a sinking ship, trampling over anyone in their way. The fact that all they're doing is bitching and moaning about piracy rather than laying off tons of their employees or filing for bankruptcy suggests that they are still making more than enough money to stay afloat--just not as much as they'd like. With all the derivative, uninspired schlock produced by the anime industry every year (which must be profitable since the industry keeps churning it out), I don't think the anime industry is in any real danger.

viz takes care of a lot too, there's just a lot of little companies and they tend to be in the most danger since they can't take as much of a hit or throw any weight around.

and do you mean japanese companies or american companies?  cause japanese companies yea, they're doing fine more or less, no question about them.  but american companies not so much.  i dobut the big ones like funimation or viz are going away anytime soon, but that doesn't mean they're not getting hurt by all this.  I say, watch what you want, buy what you like and can afford, and support your favorate stuff when you can.

Piracy or any "bootleg" translations have done more for anime fandoms in America than any company could have. As it stands, groups like KF arguably put out a better product than any dubbing company can or will. But it's also meant for the fans, not to make a profit. And KF is responsible for a very large chunk of One Piece's foreign community. Various scanlation groups (RIP NULL) have done plenty as well for One Piece's popularity outside of Japan. The fact of the matter is, without these groups anime sales wouldn't increase by that much. But without these groups, sales would probably dwindle because there'd be nothing to get people hooked in the first place. I've spent money on Funimation's stuff. Why? Because I watched entire series subbed and really liked them. Heck, the dub of Yu Yu Hakusho is arguably better than the original. It's not impossible. To blame scanlators and sub groups for the relative unpopularity and unprofitability of anime is America is to misunderstand the dynamic of the community.